Victor Tchernomyrdin: a default — it that more lowyear on March, 23rd is executed from the moment of dismissal of the government of Victor Chernomyrdi
Victor Tchernomyrdin: the default is that more low
year on March, 23rd is executed from the moment of dismissal of the government of Victor Tchernomyrdin. The events which have followed it - on August, 17th, autumn governmental crisis, unsuccessful attempts to reach the political consent - have been in many respects predetermined that spring day. The special correspondent of the publishing house talks to Victor Tchernomyrdin “ “ Igor Svinarenko.
Analysis of flights
- Victor Stepanych! On March, 23rd - year since that day! As you that... Well, you remember...
- I remember!
- you for this year have learnt something new about friends, about the politician?
he gloomily laughs.
- all remains as is. Criticised me always... I can not tell that on someone I have an insult.
- and on colleagues on the politician?
- yes I and so it the real price knew who of that costs who carries out what policy and for the sake of what. The opposition always criticises me. (I do not speak about left, about the extreme. Extreme - they sick people.) It not a trifle, but yesterday.
- that is during your career you saw so much, what you already will surprise with nothing?
- it is absolute, absolute.
- that has changed in your life?
- I began to happen in regions much. Earlier it it was not possible to me to do. Is not present, of course, happened, but how happened? More days I anywhere was not.
- well, has arrived, has quickly collected parthozaktiv...
- and now I on three days, on four can leave! Both with workers, and heads to meet.
- last trip at you what was?
- in republic Komi. A good trip! It is gas, oil edge. Were at institutes, at factories.
- in informal conversations that people spoke to you?
- all asked: “ What occurs? “
- so they that, do not understand?
- and you that, understand?
- that I? And you - that understand? You that answered the people? Why all so?
- We have lost to Americans in cold war. Not because they it is cleverer, that is why that we of simpletons. Not we of simpletons, and our heads. And we live badly not because have lost war. It is the Union has suffered defeat. The union has lost, and Russia has gone the way.
if we have gone that way which was chosen by Russia, - change of a political system, democracy development, transition with centralised on market economy - anything in it bad is not present.
I consider that it is a unique correct way. But decisions should be very weighed. Instead of so that since January, 1st liberalisation general and the general disorder of the centralised system. And what in exchange? And in exchange the Soviet constitution, the Soviet laws - all remains, and we were started up at once in the market. In 92 - m have come to year these and we began to pull down all, well here and... We twitch. Vylazim from a dirt. Only have risen therefrom, and us again in a dirt.
At the same time there were separate achievements
- And about the work you that tell to people?
- I explained to people that we inflation from 2500 percent have led eleven. We have saved up more than 23 billion dollars of a reserve! Besides that in 92 - m was, it is a shame to speak, less than one. Under the direction of Tchernomyrdin with all affairs, with difficulties, with errors worked... In 93 - m have received to year investments into Russia of 300 million. And in 97 - m only direct investments have received five. Billions. With portfelnymi - 12 billion. And it is uneasy - the trust became, laws have appeared. The policy clear became, the rouble became converted. But the most important thing: the trust to the Russian management has appeared in the West.
first we, of course, not all were able, not all knew. There were no laws, it should be created and fulfilled. And the Constitution have accepted, and laws began to accept, and have started to study...
So even savages do not arrive
- But as soon as you to all have learnt and have understood how to rectify errors, has come on March, 23rd, 1998, so?
- Has come...
- and if you remained, so, will tell, there would be no default?
- on August, 17th would not be! Yes, there were problems, crisis world, we two waves have passed - in November and February. We were ready and waited. There were measures financial, there were reserves.
- and what you answer critics who assert, what you built a pyramid and it should fall off sooner or later?
- it is valid, it was inevitability.
- inevitability of that - a collapse?
- yes is not present, inevitability of internal loan! It everywhere do. When accepted the budget, all was clear: when to us have increased an account part, and to pay there is nothing, we have been compelled to go for loans both external, and internal. Also it is all it was co-ordinated with the Duma and was accepted by it. So it is not necessary to search for Tchernomyrdin here. Tchernomyrdin never managed to confirm the budget in that kind in what it brought! Always added, added... But we went on it. We understood that time when it will be necessary to pay off will come.
- you when wanted to begin payments?
- with 98 - year. We then have already started to pay off!
- now when passions have settled, even more often speak: and what for a default, negotiations would start to carry on on the sly.
- so it also should be. Defaults were and earlier, and moratoriums - but it were discussed, warned the countries. And the youth is inclined to radical measures. Here, let us assume, I took from you on credit, and in the morning on Monday you wake up and hear - not from me besides, and by radio - as as. Could call. Yes you that, children, savages and that so do not arrive!
- and when all has fallen off, you could, having returned in the autumn, to lift the failed finance?
- And you take my performance in Council of federation in the autumn. Before to undertake this work when to me have offered in August - September to return, we long thought and have formulated offers. They and now remain in the same edition in what we did them in September. We have studied experience of other states where there were system crises. Also knew that the system of economic and legislative measures is necessary. Perfection of tax system. And to strengthen rouble.
- yes as it you will strengthen?
- system of measures...
- Victor Stepanovich, I to you want to address as to the representative gosudarstvennoobrazujushchej the nations (it is known that you sometimes use this term). Here there were results of polls, so like almost half of Russian - the anti-semites approving Makashov. It as?
- Minute, at what here it? I do not think that Makashov Russian. It seems to me, it the Jew. It is visible, at it the task, or he there all... That means “ Beat Jews “? And tomorrow that, beat Tatars, then the Kalmyk? Yes well, this perversion.
- be your power, you would stop it?
- for a long time it is necessary to judge it. It is necessary to use the power. We, the people of Russia, a millenium nearby live. I never will agree neither with Makashov, nor with barkashovtsami are nazis as a matter of fact. The dangerous phenomenon!
- and what to answer Jews who run from Russia?
- yes well that you, at us, thank God, is a little Makashovyh. I do not think that will reach any excesses. It is excluded. The power should stop it.
- let`s consider a concrete case. Here my acquaintances, the Jewish family, have submitted documents on departure to Germany. The head of the family, her name is Ljuba, asks me - to go or not? I will tell “ is not present “ - Then I should go around its houses to watch! One never knows, Makashov will come to a window ssat, and at it just the ground floor. And you can take such responsibility?
- you can to it here what transfer, from me: “ Remain, Ljuba! Makashov - one! Not makashovy define, there will be no it! Life will be adjusted! “ let Ljuba hopes that normal people will come and will normally work also all to organise.
here how many has left Jews, Germans and as life so they began to come back began to be adjusted at us. Why Kozakov has returned?
from “ Volga “ to bast shoes - one step
- Victor Stepanych! Here you speak - to unite and together to work. And you have any propaganda concept how to create an optical deceit that the difference between tops and bottoms seemed less? Remember, wrote that state officials got wages on 10 - 20 thousand dollars and where - that children ate mixed fodder. Here the president of France goes on “ Renault Safran “ - the car French, not the best. And on BMW he does not wish to sit down, though could, - as it all - taki not supervises over Germany, and the country. Perhaps it is more favourable to you to lose on frequent repair “ Volg “ but to show to the trustful voter, as officials endow something, suffer from the Russian production with all people, and? And you tell that to public - to work, work... The home producer runs to work, it by the sweat of the brow to you does cars, and you disdain them. And the power develops the German industry, “ Audi “ buys. These are all trifles but as symbols they are very bright! To squeeze to you, to statesmen, teeth and to carry factory suits “ the Bolshevik “. I understand, it is difficult, but after all but with the people!
- it is not necessary to be engaged in propaganda and propagation! And that we at first will put on a factory suit “ the Bolshevik “ then we will sit down on “ Volga “ and then on bast shoes we will put. To it, whether that, it is necessary to return? Yes it is necessary to work! The order should be guided in economy and that workplaces were and that the salary every month paid what is. He never would tell! And we even do not give this salary. And that we will be, in what suit, to agitate! Instead of in defaults to be engaged. Today at all all understand this word. All think of other at once - that more low.
Victor Stepanych is seriously touched. Its rebuff becomes simply angry.
- on “ Volga “ we will change?! Give we now we will dress up the president in bast shoes! And all will tell: if the head in bast shoes so that you want from this head and from this country!
are you were very gracefully expressed that the default is when more low. Your speech in general differs aphoristic nature. You willingly quote. It seems to me, your pearl about that wanted as better especially is pleasant to people, and it has turned out...
- I have read recently in one book about this phrase that it it was necessary to tell one thousand years ago!
- to you it is image makers think out? Or it is your own house preparations?
- yes stop hernej to be engaged you! What image maker? Well I would bear such person near to myself? That he me sat taught? Here? What house preparations! Yet really I am similar to such person, which will sit and think what to blurt out? I not Javlinsky, really!
to a question on young reformers
- Is not present, I not Javlinsky. I all - taki on life have passed. Under the classical scheme. Since the mechanic on duty. Then the machinist, the operator, the engineer, the chief, the factory manager, the minister, the vice-president...
I not Nemtsov - from the senior engineer of scientific research institute at once in an armchair of the governor, and therefrom, here.
- you do not regret, what Nemtsov have warmed?
- I? Not for that that I do not feel sorry, and it is glad to it! Have learnt. And represent, if it became the president? It was one of the most important applicants! The guy it normal - as the person. But for such post, for serious work has not ripened yet. It as “ Volga “ has offered, and all became clear. Let`s look around, we meet, we go - around in power solid people. And we any poor, any experiments at us. The country not a bicycle, there - here to develop! Per day on some times.
well they have passed? When I see the person who has passed nothing, at me such desire - to give to it something. For example, brick-works. But people preliminary to insure. And to give to such person time - work, poruli, show. But they want at once the country rulit. Here and dorulili!
there are people whom all know; Javlinsky, for example. He advises all to all, all criticises. And to ask it is that it has made? What it in life has made? Who knows about its affairs?
- Malashenko says that in presidents Javlinsky it is difficult to pass, but the prime minister - the minister it it sees.
- well, Malashenko has passed quite good school - worked in the Central Committee! And in the Central Committee of fools, as a rule, did not hold. He/she is very prepared person, cold war conducted. But with Javlinsky it has any game. And let are played, as in kindergarten with the child. Here Javlinsky...
It is visible that Victor Stepanych concerns Grigory Alekseichu very much and very not indifferently.
-... “ 500 days “ - same abracadabra, sobbed all from these “ 500 days “. Russia for 500 days at all you will not go round! But he even does not understand it! And the people are like as experimental. The person who has made nothing, yes it and a nail will not hammer. To it allow a nail to hammer, it now will start to prove, to build - it is necessary to hammer in a hypothesis or not. I Javlinsky spoke - come, work! No, speaks, I only with a command. And who knows its command? Who can name therefrom people?
- It seems that you are right... Well where to intellectuals to order such country? Them in Russia will not understand, who will listen to them here! To take Saharova - it was not in a smoking-room...
- yes, well you well done Skazanul. Sugars - and in a smoking-room! And thank God that it was not. Sugars at us one, it three times the Hero, and it the founder, thank God, we know that. But it not the senior engineer. And not zavlab. It the giant! Centuries will pass, and Sugars remains. Who to you has told that it did not understand, yes throw you! It is not necessary so. - a smoking-room and Sugars - I do not accept this comparison.
Yes who then understood something? Tell, Yeltsin understood, when it has handed over the party membership card? The former first secretary!
- yes, there was time - on hands it was carried...
- when?! Minute... When it has started to overturn a situation, it was one. And at first about it feet wiped. At congress, the Central Committee, the Political bureau... It was opening, and only have then started to ripen. Still it will be necessary to it to bow in feet that it has made.
- it now - the fighter?
- certainly. Despite of illness. Illness is illness...
- you, by the way, saw for a long time Yeltsin - that?
- I cannot tell when... Saw where - that... Well he is ill. Here now thought to it to call...
Party building and ideals
- your party, speak, wants to involve middle class.
- all of us do for this purpose. Average tolass, I consider, it and qualified workers, and agrarniki, both the teacher, and the doctor, and the businessman working in small and average business. They are people who understand that their life depends on them.
- what it is the income?
- normal which could provide normal life to it and his family.
- all - taki how many? You can result figures?
- well as we can speak about figures in such situation?
- but all - taki the bottom lath what?
- well that the person of confidently felt and could provide itself and a family. That could be treated, study and have a rest there where he considers it necessary. To have the car, and even not one. We will speak about it at forthcoming congress. We will say there that we is not comprehensible any extreme measures that shocks are not necessary to us, we - stability party.
- that is Stolypin - one of your sources and components?
- Perhaps, yes. He, by the way, too lived during rough time. Then hung up, shot, barricades were...
Peter the Great - our person
- In general, what your ideal of the politician? With whom you would like to become in one number?
- not in one number. But I can tell, whom I respect and I carry to great people. Peter the Great. It the present reformer though it too at life a horse-radish not so - that, and broke and be healthy, but today we know only that remains from Peter. He has created both fleet, and army, and a window to Europe. Look, with what diligence it has organised a science, universities. Exhausted everything, itself was able to own and an axe...
- well, this - that in smoking-rooms byva - and - l...
- happened! All has taught to smoke. Also could drink, and all was able. But was not, as they say, for the senior engineer in scientific research institute, moreover it is not known in what then to start all to teach. How to live.
Certainly, both Alexander The Third has much made, and Stolypin. I very much respect Kosygina. For the serious relation to life. It has closely approached to reforms, but to it have not allowed to make. He has understood that we will choke with that system. It then has left from a shaft, has entered concept of realisation, has started an element to enter normal market economy. Here from whom the normal reformer could turn out! Have not given, have knocked down. As it poisoned!
- you, seemingly, from this lessons have taken. You barehanded you will not take.
- and why me should take barehanded? And who me should take? Javlinsky? (The Eighth mention of this surname in interview. - And. S) Or Zyuganov? What they from themselves represent? Who else, who? Name!
you can not name even!
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“ No, I not Javlinsky. I all - taki on life have passed. Under the classical scheme. Since the mechanic on duty. “
“ I do not think that Makashov Russian. It seems to me, it the Jew. It is visible, at it the task “
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