“ Or we do, or the party membership card on a table “Dmitry Shirshov - the ideal corporate kamikaze, whom also needs to be the expert in marketing constantly to swear at the heads. Judging by career of the former director for marketing “ veins “ ability to swear is appreciated in the West more than ever.
“ a firm secret “: After work at brewery “ Vienna “ vypereshli in the company which is one of proprietors BalticBeverages Holding (BBH), - Scottish & Newcastle. How etoproizoshlo?
Dmitry Shirshov: I have talked to owners when it became clear that VVN will consolidate the business in Russia. Understand, I vmarketinge work 10 years. For our intensive market etoogromnyj term. All the same that 30 years in Europe. Recently mnestalo in Russia it is dullish, it wanted something new. For etogonuzhno was to leave: Marketing after all is fastened in public, and chtobypoluchit something new, it is necessary to replace consumers.
Council of Federation: Differently, on the West you have gone for new tselevojauditoriej?
DSH: Yes, and behind new impressions. Life goes, and not hochetsjazhdat quiet pension age when you will wake up iskazhesh: it is so much on light of the countries, devil take it, and I from them obehaltolko half.
Council of Federation: How think, it will turn out to go round more?
DSH: Probably. I live now in Scotland only formally, and nasamom business I go worldwide. To me a distance two works at once. Snachalapredlozhili to be engaged in development Foster’s in Europe. I speak: “ Not bad, but it would be desirable bolshego “. Then to me instead predlozhilirazvivat company business in Asia. I have told: “ Well, perfectly, amozhno both that and another? “ strangely enough, while poluchaetsjasovmeshchat.
DSH: Certainly, the markets very strongly differ. Only one ïðèìåð:â it is difficult to Asia to find a bar where to you will not approach and not popytajutsjasdelat presentation. I would name it not promotion, and involving. The brand - ambasador as I name, " approaches to you; the diplomat of a brand “ ine simply mark advertises, and very competently brings you to that you have ordered it. This mass phenomenon while at nastakoj reception is not used almost. I think, we too to it will come … Vtselom when you compare Europe and Asia, understand, why Kitajsejchas “ does all “.
Council of Federation: Why?
DSH: Because Chineses absolutely mad people. Otherwise nelzjadumat when you come to China and you see that children postroiliza three months the hugest highway - more than MKAD. Or kogdavidish that on a place of three old skyscrapers five new have built. And old have been constructed 10 years ago. To simply Chineses they to any reason have ceased to please.
Council of Federation: And how in mad China with beer?
DSH: the biggest beer market of the world. Though consumption on dushunaselenija while is insignificant. The brands at us there now are not present - only the joint venture. My work in helping these brendysozdavat.
Council of Federation: It turns out?
DSH: the Market very difficult. Many global kompaniiinvestirovali to China huge means, and it has then appeared, chtomoshchnostej it is constructed twice more than it is necessary for the market. The price pivaupala to 7 rbl. for a bottle. A margin so small, chtokonkurirovat it is possible only in that region where you have a factory igde very short logistical chain.
Council of Federation: There are bonus marks?
DSH: Well is on sale Budweiser. But it costed huge expenses th buying up of the local companies and aggressive advancement.
Council of Federation: And your strategy what?
DSH: Our strategy is rather pragmatic - we not vkladyvaemdengi if we do not see possibility to earn in the long term. Therefore business while we develop, using local partners. JAtolko I am up on. In China quickly to do business it is impossible: nadosnachala to build mutual relations. If you with people have not gone vrestoran and contact has not managed to come into, can at all pytatsjachto - that to begin. It is the most productive to intertwine with conversation on affairs vseredine a supper, having tried 35 Chinese dishes. On following dentebe will tell: it was the excellent idea, we so will make. So pokarasskazat there is nothing - in marketing projects quickly do not become.
Council of Federation: In development Foster’s too only enter in kursdela?
DSH: Foster’s extremely interesting brand. The Australian mark, enters into first ten international brands, and rastetposlednie 10 years. It is very good if to consider that the market vomnogih the countries decreases. At a brand an accurate personnel: blagodarjapozitivnomu to the relation to the world, the hero áðýíäa lives, without straining, ipoluchaet pleasure from life. Now my problem - as it is possible luchsheetot to inform an image to ïîòðeáèòåëåé and, of course, to increase obemprodazh in the key markets.
Scottish & Newcastle - one of the largest pivovarennyhkompany the world and second-large in Great Britain ïîñëåSABMiller. The company owns shares in 50 brewing kompanijahmira, in it works as 37 thousand persons. Scottish & Newcastleïðèíàäëåæèò the most known beer brand in France Kronenbourg1664. Also the company spilt under the licence Australian ïèâîFoster’s (recently Scottish & Newcastle has completely redeemed pravana this brand for territories of Europe at its owner Foster’s GroupLimited for 309 million pounds sterling). In Russia Scottish & Newcastle 50 % of holding BBH, in which number of actives vhodjatpeterburgskie breweries " own; Baltic “ and “ Vienna “ (drugojpolovinoj BBH owns Carlsberg).
Council of Federation: your career growth for certain will cause envy in many. How vynachinali the marketing way?
DSH: In general - that I was going to be the financier. Has gone to study vsoedinennye States on MBA, having handed over a heap of tests and having received stipendijuamerikanskogo the governments. After the first year of training has got vmezhdunarodnuju the program of trainees Procter & Gamble and otpravilsjav Moscow to work a financial analyst. There to me udalosporabotat on one project with children from marketing. To me all etoponravilos, and I have decided to specialise and on marketing, and nafinansah. After MBA worked at the Russian office RJR Tobacco (tepereto Japan Tobacco International) - me have enlisted directly vamerike. There has learnt to work in direct contact to the consumer: in “ tabachke “ it is necessary to do it in force zakonodatelnyhogranicheny. Then, where I came, saw that my skills vetom a direction are very well developed. Then, truth, has understood, chtonormalnym the expert in marketing in “ tabachke “ do not become, because tammnogie media mix elements are absent. And I have passed in Mars.
Council of Federation: It is company very closed for the press. That interesneeuznat what were the main lessons “ marketing school “ Mars?
DSH: the First lesson to me have given, when we with one menedzheromnapisali each other on steam of letters. We were called by the director on personalui has told: “ Children, once again will write the letter, we will dismiss both of you “. Culture Mars is that: it is necessary to talk and agree, rabotattolko in a command. If people start to write letters, means, onimarajut a paper, instead of solve problems.
Council of Federation: And what you did in Mars?
DSH: I was engaged in forages, conducted “ the Wiskas “. I can tell with vsejotvetstvennostju while at us there lived a cat, I am absolutely quiet kormilego “ the Wiskas “. I consider that it is absolutely correct diet. Kotvygljadel it is good. Unfortunately, he has already died of an old age.
Council of Federation: “ your cat would buy “Wiskas“ “ - your hands business?
DSH: Is not present, it has been thought up to me. When I have come, brendnachal a few to lose a position, and we have returned it on the first place.
Council of Federation: How?
DSH: much that has been made. For example, we the first in Rossijuzapustili a forage in bags from a foil - they allowed luchshesohranjat a product, to enter disposable packing.
Council of Federation: Only one innovation has allowed to strengthen leadership?
DSH: Not only it - but it was an important component of success. The most tremendous that we have started it during epicritic time istali to sell more expensively. When I presented business - the plan, nashfinansovyj the director could not understand, how we can sell dorogiekorma in Russia, which “ lies “ after crisis. Long mydiskutirovali. While, at last, owners have not arrived and have not told: “ to It to be “. It Mars differs from other companies. There inogdapriezzhaet the owner also speaks: “ I do not want bullshitôèíàíñîâûé to listen to all this, we will do it. We believe that in Russia vsebudet it is good “.
Council of Federation: to What marketing approaches you have learnt in Mars?
DSH: First of all there everyone learnt to think not kakbrend - the manager, and as general director of a brand.
Council of Federation: In what a difference?
DSH: the General director thinks about all components of business, instead of otom how to build positioning and to scatter the advertising budget poraznym media. You as the general director think: that with logistics that stehnologicheskoj a chain and etc.
Council of Federation: to think and to go mad, it is necessary to have polnomochijachto - that to change.
DSH: Mars welcomed, when experts in marketing not simply zanimalismarketingom, and worked over krossfunktsionalnymi projects. Kprimeru, I conducted the project on installation of a line for bags “ the Wiskas “. It is the engineering project, but I had to get into it. On me bylavozlozhena the big responsibility because I as marketologponimal, am how much important this innovation.
Council of Federation: It has helped to avoid dramatic errors?
DSH: It has helped to start a line rapidly. I vpolneosoznaval its importance for business. If the expert in marketing does not think oprodukte as business, it is simple kreativshchik. Here all ãîâîðÿò:ôóíêöèîíàëüíàÿ a component emotions are not important, important. Yes nichegopodobnogo! Actually even in beer till now it is important, good utebja quality is supervised or not. If the consumer sees that utebja labels shabby, all your advertising departs to a pipe.
Council of Federation: When labels at all are put in order, arises âîïðîñ:êàê to establish with the consumer correct emotsionalnyjkontakt?
DSH: Researches, researches, researches. And not vtom that it is necessary to order business much them. It is necessary to go on groups most ismotret as people of conduct when they say lies.
Council of Federation: it when - nibud has helped you?
DSH: Yes, for example when we started Kronenbourg. At us bylaprovokatsionnaja the concept constructed on a seducing on - French. All was as it is necessary: underwear and other attributes. Nopotrebiteli said that it too and to it is not pleasant. Hotjamuzhchiny began to behave strange. One took a bottle and long neotpuskal. Another has told: “ I will drink this beer in hotel “. Toest the underlying reason of the concept has slipped in consciousness, besides will. We, truth, could not realise idea at once - at once on neskolkimprichinam. But a number of elements will enter into campaign of this year.
Council of Federation: It could be simply accidents. And you on them postroilidaleko going conclusions …
DSH: on the basis of accidents it is impossible to do Conclusions. However takiemalenkie sparkles give insajdy which can be checked dalnejshimiissledovanijami or supervision. As a result you good kontseptsijumozhesh from this to build. People after all the big hypocrites. posaditemuzhchinu near to the wife, opposite - the beautiful woman also ask, he wants this beauty or not. Naturally, he will tell “ is not present “. Plant it near to friends, receive absolutely drugojotvet.
Council of Federation: it seems To me, all this mythology about insajdy and ozarenijaskryvaet true: the expert in marketing trusts in something and is ready iskatpodtverzhdenie beliefs in everything, including in time calculation when the bottle is kept in a hand.
DSH: On - to a miscellaneous happens. At the good expert in marketing both polusharijarabotajut it is equally good, and then it constantly breaks rules, and quite it realising. It is important to analyze, what zvonochkipostupajut - small insajdy allow you to create belief. Though, of course, it is a challenge. We will tell, the first that comes on umcheloveku: that I would make, if was the consumer. Very much legkoetomu to give in, and it is impossible - you after all are not tselevojauditoriej. I tell banal things, but it is the most terrible effect which psychologically prevails over any expert in marketing.
Council of Federation: you made such error?
DSH: Such is not present, but there were cases when changed the opinion podnaporom rational arguments, and then was sorry. So, we have started “ Neva Ice “ a year later, than could. Have looked at the research which has shown that the concept does not contain anything especial. posmotrelina world trends where grades ice not too well feel. Also have postponed start. Then all - taki have changed the mind and have started. And ochenuspeshno. But would start earlier, still would be more successful. eslizadumatsja, same a tremendous piece. It is possible to look naratsionalnye factors, and it is possible to trust in intuition. Thus mozhnovyigrat, and it is possible to be pierced cruelly.
Council of Federation: But it is necessary to itself to trust?
DSH: Yes, it is necessary to trust.
Council of Federation: was not such, what you have believed and have regretted?
DSH: it is fair, no. More often - taki it is possible to regret for all that poddavleniem management you are reinsured. In this sense marketologdolzhen to be the corporate kamikaze. It should be sposobenrazrugatsja about a staff - apartment or with the general director. Libodelaem, or the party membership card on a table.
Council of Federation: you swore?
DSH: There were some moments. When I have come on factory “ Vienna “ start Tuborg Green which has already been planned, has postponed for a year. Has looked that start is not ready, has estimated difficult konkurentnujusituatsiju and has postponed. Scandal was terrible.
Council of Federation: In what form?
DSH: In the form of emotional conversations with the Danish management. The most tremendous, than all has ended: last year Carlsberg vsvoej corporate - school Russian kejszapuska Tuborg Green has decided to assort a brand. And so one of sections in it was opisaniekonflikta between the Russian director for marketing ivitse - the president on marketing of the Danish office. It does chestvitse - to the president. He has told: “ I want, that people were not afraid and bilisza that, in what they trust “. I consider, it is correct.
Council of Federation: you have told that there were some moments. And what eshchepomnite?
DSH: We swore much, when all - taki have started TuborgGreen.
Council of Federation: Danes were against the concept about openers, kotoryeostalis without work from - for occurrences Tuborg Green?
DSH: They did not understand, how it can be sold. Izmenilimnenie when we have already tested ready rollers - they pobiliroliki from world archive, and with a terrible separation. If nepobili, me, probably, would shoot. But I think so: budeshbojatsja, the big affairs you will not make. Tuborg became licence brendomnomer one, and there was number seven.
Council of Federation: I, to tell the truth, waited for continuation of history of a proadventure of openers and thought that they become heroes of a brand, kaku M & M’s. And the history has faded.
DSH: has not faded. Campaign became a key to consciousness of people. Mytuda have jumped and have started to work quickly with this consciousness. Nachalistroit on functional advantage emotional áðýíä:àêòèâíûé, vigorous, youth. Correctly we have left from openers. Andnnovatsija after all it is copied - now many brands leave sotkryvashkami. And we have fulfilled them on a maximum and further have left vmuzyku, began to bring concerts, to spend massovyemeroprijatija.
Council of Federation: Only here spoils taste of a victory nekotorajaneunikalnost territories " a little; beer for parties “ …
DSH: On “ Klinsky “ hint? With it we dejstvitelnoperesekaemsja. But Tuborg - a foreign brand, therefore it poopredeleniju is more attractive, than the Russian marks. What we nigovorili, in consumer sense youth at us boleeprozapadnaja. Besides, there is a big territory where it is possible mnogozarabatyvat and where there is any brand which it uderzhatne can. Yes to expel him it is necessary and to occupy territory.
Council of Federation: it is possible to make Of all this history and other conclusion: vazhnone simply to think up the decision, but also in time to cease egoprimenjat.
DSH: Yes, it is exact. Know, who actively is engaged in run, krossovki changes everyone half a year. If you will not change, at tebjakoleni will depart. Because feet get used to krossovkam. Nuzhnomenjat loading. In marketing the same: it is necessary to jump from a wave navolnu. And the most terrible - to sit up on a wave. Because with neetebja so will incur that will be insulting.
Council of Federation: you bore?
DSH: Was such with “ Neva “. We have spent restyling: pomenjaliupakovku, have thought up new territory - “ for those who understands “. It has turned out very well - sales have grown. But packing srabotalaluchshe, than advertising: the territory has appeared not so working. Campaign was pleasant to some part of Petersburgers, but, as a matter of fact, was not beer, approached for wine more. I have admitted îøèáêó:óâèäåâ success, did not begin to change anything about what then very much was sorry.
“ To me it is uninteresting, when it is possible to thrust simply a tag vzemlju “
Council of Federation: You basically work over perfection already sushchestvujushchihbrendov. Do not grieve for creation of values from a blank leaf?
DSH: I participated and in creation of brands. Did regionalnyepivnye marks, in particular “ the Ural master “ - a strong brand vuralskom region. To work with existing brands it is more difficult, chemsozdavat new. Because in this case at you already estopredelennye restrictions: a mark heritage, the positioning, the generated audience. It is much more difficult, so, more interesting.
Council of Federation: it is pleasant to you, when it is more difficult?
DSH: To me it is uninteresting, when it is possible to come, thrust simply flazhokv the earth and to declare territory of the. It is interesting, when after etogoobjavlenija active fight begins. I like challenges. And fortunately for me, the world all becomes more difficult.