“ the USA it is necessary to rethink the relation to a world order “
the Former US State Secretary Henry Kissindzher about Barack Obama`s second term, crisis in the European Union and change of the power by China
Presidential election - 2012 in the USA has split a society, the former state secretary, the Nobel prize winner of the world HENRY KISSINDZHER considers. In interview Handelsblatt the politician states an estimation to opposition of democrats and republicans, speaks about paramount problems of Washington on international scene and argues on what maximum load during the European debt crisis Germany is capable to sustain.
the Foreign policy demands changes
— G - n Kissindzher, begins the second term of president Barack Obama. How you estimate position of the nation after such long and aggressive election campaign?
— I Believe that “ aggressive “ — It is still softly told. The country is split. Not only in that, as to result of elections, but also in respect of the deep philosophical approach to important questions internal and foreign policy.
— Excitements in the Near East, war in Afghanistan, a new management in China: what will be now foreign policy of the USA?
— the Foreign policy has faced variety of calls. How to operate further concerning nuclear ambitions of Iran? How to be with Syria? How to develop to long-term relations with Russia? It can not be indifferent to us and debt crisis in Europe. The weight of China grows. It puts new questions on such themes, as power, ecology and distribution of nuclear technologies.
— Instead of whether and America should reflect on the new role in the world?
— As to foreign policy tactically if it is a question of affairs flowing, we operated till now quite adequately. Now we have faced that to us is necessary to rethink the relation to a world order which was generated after the termination of the Second World War and which does not exist any more. And demographic processes change America.
— the Concept of a superpower of the USA has come to the natural end?
— After the Second World War of the USA considerably surpassed other states. Here it was made more than 50 % of world gross national product. A geostrategic problem was Russia as threat for Europe. After war Europe was weak and exhausted. The role of the USA as leader was obvious and for the West necessary. This role consisted that America dictated frame conditions, and other countries followed these frame conditions. Now the power centre moves from Atlantic in a direction of other regions. There was a new world order, and, as though you it named, it cannot depend on one America.
Washington and Beijing
— What role of China in this world order will be?
— Always say that China should follow the international rules, but Chineses want them to observe not simply, they want to participate in their creation.
— whether Chineses with the new political management Are ready and capable to carry out these high claims?
— Often there is a question, whether the new secretary general of Communist party Si Tszinpin possesses qualities necessary for it. But thus one moment is not considered: the main person in the Chinese hierarchy has less authorities, than the US president. It is necessary for it to provide constantly a consensus in the Communist Party Central Committee though as the secretary general it, of course, is its most important Party member. But it is deprived possibility of acceptance of individual decisions, for example, in questions on the beginning of military operations, in comparison with the American president who is commander-in-chief VS the USA. Therefore it is impossible to answer abstractly a question, whether Chineses are ready to accept existing rules. It depends on how China will develop. And it very much depends on dialogue which will be conducted between China and the West, first of all between China and America.
— Today leading politicians in China make quite reasonable impression. You agree with it?
— Really, today we from both parties deal with reasonable state leaders. I would formulate the impressions of the Chinese management as follows: It knows that it is necessary to solve serious internal political problems, and it knows what to make it by military adventures it is impossible.
— you repeatedly met Si Tszinpinom. Whether you consider as its skilled politician - an expert?
— If “ a cultural revolution “ you have worried as the son of one of its victims and if your native father before has got to disgrace, was the colleague Mao about complexity of human relations you have representation. And representation how political open-cast mines can quickly fall, too. Whether there is at it an experience of every day foreign policy activity? Anyway, I am assured that again selected US president and a new management in China are capable to meaningful dialogue.
Republicans and democrats
— As to the American internal policy: Whether it is necessary republicans to make the peace with Obama`s government?
— I began The political life as “ rokfellerovsky the republican “. It was socially - a progressive wing of Republican Party which now does not exist any more. However there are people of type of senator John McCain with whom I am amicable many years which have understood: wider basis is necessary to party. It cannot be guided almost exclusively by the white population. It should to reflect to certain degree and all ethnic structure of the USA.
— During election campaign you supported Mitta Romni though do not divide variety of its positions.
— Really, I supported to it in spite of the fact that it do not agree with its position concerning China and Russia. I spoke about it quite openly. But I know it many years. I think that it basically is the moderate politician, which — it appear it on a post of the president — would take of a position which would correspond to my belief, let and not to the smallest details.
— During election campaign head Goldman Sachs Lloyd Blankfejn too gave support of Romni. However past week it has acted on Obama`s party — for increase in the tax at the rich. Republicans it is the offer — despite the big state debt — reject vigorously. It is an error?
— On the one hand, it is a philosophical theme, and with another — display of evolution of Republican Party. Personally I am ready to pay more a heavy tax. I would agree on it, not vstrevaja in political debates. Republicans have taken of a position complicating searches of a consensus in questions of social policy.
— That you would advise to the party: How it is necessary to concern defeat on elections? To inflate the conflict or to aspire to cooperation?
— Promising politicians - republicans of type of Jab Bush, Marko Rubio and Pola Rajana inevitably should interfere, so far as concerns large problems. But after all there are people from the party which try to adjust interaction. For example, the former US State Secretaries who are in close contact with each other and which opinions on the major questions seldom do not coincide. As to a foreign policy problematics we are capable to have softening influence on both parties.
— How there is this exchange of opinions between eks - US State Secretaries? You have created a certain club grown wise experience of thinkers?
— I Will result to you one example: Each time when the new state secretary takes up the post, its predecessor suits a supper to which all former state secretaries &mdash are invited; from both parties. So was during three previous changes, and I am assured that so will be and this time.
Debt crisis and Europe
— One year ago you have expressed confidence that Europeans will find an overcoming the crisis though you and do not know how they will make it. Whether you keep the optimism till now?
— Here that me disturbs: I am not assured that I understand, how at the expense of the most severe economy it is possible to achieve economic growth. And even let in the theory all is correct, but I am afraid that if requirements of new reductions of expenses will prevail, the political system can fail still before all process will come to the end.
— What could you recommend?
— At an ideal deal Europe leaves crisis of even more uniform. But thus I ask myself: during what moment it is necessary to think of creation of small homogeneous economic association from the European countries? This economically homogeneous formation should be a part of the large political union in which, however, member countries should not move forward with identical speed any more.
— So you consider, what Germans should reconsider the course chosen by them?
— Germans are in very difficult position. Germany has already made two big payments: it is a joint agrarian policy of the European union and reunion of Germany. Now Germans ask to make one more, for the sake of the European unity. In first two cases support of the population of Germany was available. This time readiness of Germans is not so obvious to make a sacrifice. However this such decision which Germans should accept.
— you after all have told once: the problem of large statesmen consists in conducting a society there where it still never was before.
— I support that a priority is the big, uniform Europe. But during any moment it is necessary to wonder simply: if the unity is impossible, perhaps, it will turn out as - that on - to another? Anyway the political unity of Europe should be kept.
— At the moment eks - chancellor Helmut Kohl and the former Minister for Foreign Affairs of Germany Hans - Dietrichs Gensher recommend will keep unity not only to the European Union, but also an eurozone.
— At the moment I would advise the same.
— Is simultaneously discussed also, whether the second re-structuring of a state debt as offers IMF is necessary to Greece, and whether it is necessary Germany to agree with it.
— This really such decision to accept which owe the population of Germany. We should not insist on that Germany made a sacrifice if ourselves are not ready to take a part of these victims on ourselves. Basically, I agree with Kohl and Gensherom. But once all - taki it is necessary to wonder: really this infinite or it can result process - taki in concrete results? I search for other variants instead of the states of Europe have again returned to the national apartments.
— Thus, alternative to present development is the political union of the countries with the currencies?
— Now I to recommend it did not become. I not the economist, but I can quite imagine that a certain creatively conceiving statesman will think up system at which the political unity in Europe can continue to exist, leaning against two different economic concepts.
— German chancellor Angela Merkel about “ Europe two speeds “ as Minister of Finance Wolfgang Shojble still was many years ago expressed, and to hear wants nothing.
— I Angela Merkel`s great admirer. Certainly, at it other tactical criteria, rather than than, say, at me. She should think of the future coalitions. It seems to me, by the experience she already knows that the big, visible steps bring to it problems, and moving consistently, that is small short steps, it can become successful.
With 1973 for 1977 Henry Kissindzher was the US State Secretary at presidents - republicans Richard Nixon and Dzheralde Ford. However even later 35 years the American political elite listen to opinion 89 - the summer Nobel prize winner of the world. Republican Kissindzher appears useful to the president - to democrat Barack Obama in the same measure, as to leading politicians of the party. It acts with reports, participates in discussions, writes books, meets heads of industrial concerns and banks. Its latest book On China is devoted lifting of China.