The number of invalids in Russia has passed for 13 million persons
the Answer participants of our Advisory council searched: the first vice-president of Committee of the State Duma by training and a science Oleg SMOLIN; the vice-president of the All-Russia society of invalids Oleg RYSEV, the councillor on affairs of invalids at the chairman of the council of Federation Alexander LYSENKO, zamrukovoditelja department of social protection of the population of a city of Moscow Olga MIHAJLOVA; the chairman of board of directors of the First republican bank Sergey JUNIN; the deputy chief of department of department of development of social protection minzdravsotsrazvitija Lydia SAVIN.
| It is necessary to recognise fairly: to reflect, whether the building in which edition that to us the people moving on a carriage easy could come is located is adapted, we were forced only by a theme of a today`s meeting. Oleg Viktorovich, it was difficult to get to us?
Oleg Rysev | Availability of your building if it is fair, I would estimate on a three. Though it is far not most “ heavy “ a case. The ramp is, though abrupt and rough, but there is no handrail and hand-rail; a turnstile and doors basically the normal. The lift is narrowish. My wheelchair compact, I use such, proceeding from the Russian reality of availability. There are wider carriages, they it is more convenient, but to the lift in such frequently will not get any more...
RG | Rather “ the Russian realities “ we have a letter. “ buildings with an unimpeded access where the invalid can pass itself, without asking about the help, in Moscow it is possible to count on fingers. Only two cinemas - “ Five stars “ on Novokuznetsk and “ Salute “ on Academic - without steps. There was a remarkable movie centre on Red Presne, after reconstruction of a main entrance it has appeared is inaccessible. And problems with hotels? Only two of inexpensive to all Moscow approach for invalids “.
Though for the sake of justice it is necessary to tell: the equipped buildings becomes nevertheless more. The new drugstore - a ramp opens, as a rule, is. Or we take the musical theatre of a name of Stanislavsky and Nemirovich restored after a fire - Danchenko - the lovely sight is simple, all is thought over - smooth liftings, lifts, in a hall of a place for carriages are provided.
Olga Mihajlova | For Moscow with its scales is nevertheless a huge city - the problem is especially difficult. Essentially the problem of creation of the accessible environment has been put in 1995 when there was a law on social protection of invalids which has emphasised their rehabilitation, integration into a society. Till this time of the politician was another: the state guaranteed to the person a certain material maintenance. And more anything.
In 2001 the capital law on which the city has incurred obligations on the equipment of a public infrastructure has been passed. On the official statistics, 38 percent of buildings and constructions in Moscow are accessible to invalids.
However, when last year we together with justices, prefectures, the organisations of invalids have begun inventory, it has appeared that position where is more serious. mosgorstat collects the information from the enterprises which estimate itself. Also it is found out that the ramp, for example, is, but to use it it is impossible.
From now on in Moscow works on re-equipment of buildings go constantly. The fifth, complex target program on 2007 - is developed 2009 new, already: on social integration of invalids and other persons with ability to live restrictions. From 36 billion roubles about third it is planned to spend for improvement of 9 thousand city objects. For last three years it is converted about 5 thousand.
But besides objects of city submission in capital set of the federal organisations and a large quantity private, including consumer services working in the market, - shops, the markets, banks.
Sergey Junin | We have opened the branch first in capital in Kozhuhove, completely adapted for visitors - invalids. It not only a convenient input, but also low racks, information materials for blind, Brajlja executed by a font. And I want to tell that for us it not charity, and business expansion. It is convinced that it is impossible “ to divide “ potential clients - here with these we work, and with these is not present, it is simple because they to us cannot enter.
Mihajlova | It was precedent when to us representatives of this bank have addressed and have asked to consult how correctly to equip office taking into account norms not only for invalids - koljasochnikov, but also for blind and deaf people. In the beginning of year session of council of the authorised banks has taken place at the mayor of Moscow, and we discussed this problem with representatives of 38 banks. The basic attention to the Savings Bank and Bank of Moscow, after all through them goes the lion`s share of social payments, payment of pensions. It a task in view: to convert offices.
RG | It there should be a good will of the owner of the enterprise or it is possible as - that to force it?
Junin | Well, in - the first, is the law. All points which work with the population, should be specially equipped for people with the limited possibilities. But much depends and on the personal relation of the person to this problem, its world outlook. All of us want to live in a civilised society, and to each of us on forces to put a brick of this society in the territory.
Mihajlova | Actually, the base is for this purpose created: under the law responsibility for the object adaptation to needs of invalids is born by the proprietor. And it is a question of complex re-equipment, beginning from an entrance door, a zone of moving in a building, a service zone, plus sanitary rooms, are four obligatory specifications. And separately - adjoining territory that any person, whatever restrictions it had, could receive services free.
Oleg Smolin | the Problem bezbarernoj concerns environments not only koljasochnikov, but also other categories, in particular visually impaired persons. In Moscow the situation is much better, than in the majority of cities of Russia, it is necessary to give due to the Moscow authorities. But as to the sounded traffic lights in streets, sound majachkov which facilitate orientation to visually impaired persons, - where all it? And here that earlier at us did not think of rehabilitation of invalids, would like to object. For example, at enterprises VOI in Soviet period 52 thousand persons, now - only 15 thousand though the number of invalids has not decreased worked.
Alexander Lysenko | the Majority of invalids dreams to conduct an active way of life, to realise itself including it is professional. If the city environment is adapted, it helps rehabilitation. If continually barriers are a hostile environment. Thus, creation of the accessible environment is a part of rehabilitation process which not simply provides free movement, possibility to work, get education to use cultural values, but does the person economically and socially independent, that is free.
RG | Why cities change extremely slowly?
| the Legislation in many respects remains to Lysenko declarative. We take the Town-planning code. There it is told: the structure of the design documentation of building object should include the list of actions for maintenance of its availability to invalids. But further in brackets a footnote: “ in case of preparation of the corresponding design documentation “. It simply mine of the slowed down action! After all actually it means: you have not prepared this part of the design documentation - anything terrible, pass examination without it, anybody from you will ask nothing. Moreover, in connection with administrative reform it is necessary transition with old SNiPov on technical regulations. We with VOI have looked at their projects - about people with physical inability there have simply forgotten.
the Second. Redistribution of powers between power levels too has worsened a situation. All known 122 - j the law, the law on a monetization, has carried invalids in so-called “ a federal category “. Yes, there is a Federal target program on 2005 - 2010. But for an availability solution of a problem all over the country for five years it is allocated only 60 million roubles. On them you will make nothing. And regions speak now: invalids are a federal level of responsibility, instead of ours. During the best times in two thirds of regions there were own programs on the adaptation of the environment of ability to live. Today the majority of them is curtailed.
Smolin | One more example. The administrative code has entered responsibility of those who does not provide adaptation of again entered or reconstructed buildings about what Olga Viktorovna spoke. But it is executed, from my point of view, extremely poorly. I think, additional legislative initiatives in this respect are necessary.
Lysenko | the Trouble that in a society, as well as among officials, importance of this problem does not admit.
Junin | completely agree. On the first place there should be a public opinion formation. You know, we work for a long time with one invalid children`s organisation - a fine art studio. We help them to sell the works, have made constantly operating exhibition - sale. So represent - some clients are dissatisfied. Speak, we here have come to be served. And here pictures of children, moreover and with history of each child. Someone has told that there is nothing more terrible, than indifference of good people.
RG | Let`s return to a question why all - taki is not carried out the legislation. It is the key moment.
Oleg Rysev | you can present, that traffic safety rules were, but the service which watched their observance, did not exist? Whether it is bad, whether it is good, but GAI works constantly, providing control on roads.
Since July, 1st, 2002 the administrative code had already been provided responsibility for neobespechenie an unimpeded access of invalids to objects of a social and other infrastructure, and bodies of social protection of the population should watch observance of this order. However for three years Ministry of Labor (and then and Mines - zdravsotsrazvitija) Russia and has not prepared departmental federal documents on the list of officials which should fix infringements in this sphere and make reports on an administrative offence. And only in the end of 2005 this function has been transferred by the law on differentiation of powers to level of regions. But till now, according to VOI, the government only one region - Stavropol Territory - has made decision on the statement of the list of officials of bodies of social protection of the population of Stavropol Territory, authorised to make reports on administrative offences.
RG | But we have Rospotrebnadzor, service which is responsible for the consumer market...
| In my opinion, it is necessary to begin Mihajlova “ from an oven “ from designing and building. There is a weight of bodies which carry out supervision in sphere of building, input of objects, their operation. There are supervising bodies which make examination of projects. At last, there is a customer, the proprietor of under construction object. If this earns trehzvenevaja system then for new buildings and reconstructed objects the problem will be solved.
| As world experience shows Lysenko: expenses on availability maintenance increase a budget project cost a maximum on 5 - 10 percent. It not so is a lot of if to consider that the prices for habitation grow on 25 - 30 percent a year.
Mihajlova | And all - taki business uneasy and not cheap. An example - small Ireland where live all 4 million person, promises to adapt environment for invalids by 2016. They understand that “ here and now “ it will not turn out: there are differentiations in responsibility and property forms, and the state cannot supervise all in this plan.
Lysenko | But that the developed countries much more have overtaken us in this plan, imposes on us additional obligations. In December, 2006 the International convention of the United Nations on the rights of invalids has been confirmed. If Russia ratifies it, we will be obliged it to execute. And invalids in case of non-observance of their rights can address straight in the United Nations.
Smolin | At last if we want that in 2014 we had Olympic Games today it is necessary to think that in Sochi on a carriage to pass pass. And after all still there will be Paraolympic games.
Rysev | Influence of the international community on us is obvious. We will remember, yet there was no Russian legislation on the accessible environment for invalids when the first McDonald`s has been constructed. It is possible to love or not to love hamburgers and accordingly to welcome or criticise their occurrence in us. But the fact that it was the unique restaurant having a toilet for invalids which was initially accessible completely. Now the same corporate ethics observe, coming to us, for example, the international trading networks. Hypermarkets also are equipped taking into account invalids, and employ them.
Lydia Savin | Minzdravsotsrazvitija, since 2006, carries out situation monitoring in regions. Programs of social support of invalids are accepted in 50 regions, really work approximately in 40. A picture very motley, programs are versatile: it and rendering of address material aid, and creation of the rehabilitation centres, and employment, maintenance with means of rehabilitation, sign language translation service, subtitrirovanie local television programs, service work “ a social taxi “. As to formation of the accessible environment, do Moscow much, the Southern region is Krasnodar territory, the Rostov region, Stavropol Territory. That is cities - resorts, for example Anapa, perfectly understand that it not only a social problem, but also economic. Serious programs in Hunts - Mansijske, the Novosibirsk region.
But there is such feature: If drugstores, polyclinics, establishments of social protection, formation, culture are reconstructed actively enough, as a rule, nobody is engaged in office buildings. The power is actually fenced off from people with the limited possibilities. To demand from business, of course, it is necessary. But to begin the power should from itself.
Smolin | At me is the offer. Together with the press to make such experiment: to offer all wishing deputies of the State Duma, government officials to try to stay only one day in a skin of the invalid. Someone to plant on a carriage, to someone to tie a bandage on eyes. I assure you, experience of other countries proves that similar PR - the action considerably changes the relation of the power to problems of invalids.
RG | the Offer is accepted. If, of course, it will be possible to find the officials, ready to go on such experiment. Anyway we will continue conversation on problems of invalids on pages “ “.