Pulikovski: Commands were given by heads
| Konstantin Borisovich why in Russia tower cranes even more often fall, there are murderers lifts in apartment houses, and the mines stuffed with the most perfect automatics, capable to prevent failure, nevertheless blow up?
Konstantin Pulikovski | Even more often we face artificial intervention of the person in work of mechanisms. Here and on mine Ulyanovsk someone has got into automatics which showed high level of methane. Moreover, it could disconnect immediately an electricity in order to avoid a spark, but... Automatics on mine has been intentionally broken so that gauges showed smaller quantity of methane and did not disconnect an electricity.
RG | Then people meaningly ran risks?
Pulikovski | Can be assumed only. One - from - for money not to stop coal development. Others... Commands were given by heads. Names of prospective executors, all who has directly put the equipment out of action, will find out law enforcement bodies. And within the limits of criminal case of originators the Office of Public Prosecutor names.
RG | As you consider, these shocking results will serve as a lesson for others?
Pulikovski | I Will try to make, that it was for all the others a good lesson. Though it is very uneasy. The main complexity is covered in ours perhaps . We establish the best equipment, gauges and we consider that it and is civilised business. But civilised business will not get with hands into this gauge. All time while there is a failure investigation on Ulyanovsk I remember, how, being the representative of the president in the Far East, for detection of poachers we together with frontier guards have organised monitoring of our fishery vessels which left to Japan. Have started the special space companion of tracking each ship. On decks have established gauges. But then members of team covered these gauges with a metal garbage can. And the signal did not pass. When we established this expensive system, anybody at all did not assume that out of operation it will be deduced by a garbage can.
RG | And what personal responsibility, for example, experts of Rostehnadzora, for failures with a deadly outcome? After all at times heads of the enterprises simply ignore instructions of inspectors of Rostehnadzora?
Pulikovski | Happens also such. Last autumn on zolotorudnom mine in the Chita region our inspector for a month four times went down in mine, checked the equipment. All its actions are reflected in special magazine of checks. But, unfortunately, the proprietor did not react to instructions. And we consider that the inspector because has not insisted on performance of the instructions is guilty in this case.
RG | But whether it could make it?
Pulikovski | Could. Up to a manufacture stop, including through court. It does not make any work. And to suspend work of any mechanisms working with infringements of safety, for this purpose and in court it is not necessary to address. So the inspector was reprimanded for insufficient insistence to podnadzornoj the organisations.
RG | Reprimand and all?
Pulikovski | Often we bring an attention to the question on professional unfitness. Then people leave the state controllers.
RG | Right after in the Kemerovo region your service has stopped failures for five days of 33 mines of Russia. How affairs today are? Whether mines work?
Pulikovski | Today while work of 7 mines and 126 underground objects on which infringements are not eliminated is suspended. The others - already work, as have executed instructions of the checking. All this time of inspector Rostehnadzora supervise on all mines of the country security of the mountain enterprises necessary quantity of air, reliability of schemes of airing. Sometimes work of some mines we stopped all at some o`clock, sometimes even on 2 - 3 hours. In this time it was possible to eliminate malfunctions then miners came back in a face.
RG | And how there are relations of inspectors of Rostehnadzora with new proprietors? How much strongly they financially depend on them?
Pulikovski | Today proprietors can really affect the inspector, on its well-being material resources. Because everywhere and the habitation is given at the expense of proprietors in the same mining settlements, both the office equipment is bought, and working premises are equipped. But now Rostehnadzor tries to depart from similar dependence. Joint agreements are entered into with large proprietors, uniform rules of supervision of industrial safety are entered. And has begun that last year from the Astrakhan region inhabitants have sent in Rostehnadzor photos about oil floods. Anybody from inspectors of Rostehnadzora and managers LUKOIL maintaining these sites, on so scale state of emergency did not report. Means, have agreed among themselves. We with the president of the company LUKOIL Alekperov have gone to the place of flood. Also have come to a conclusion, time suffers business, it is necessary to force to work people by uniform rules. In contracts it has been registered: if at operation the legislation is broken, rules and norms, the inspector " are not observed; gives a signal and to the proprietor, and in Rostehnadzor. And now two parties receive the objective information from places.
RG | other proprietors of dangerous objects Are ready to such agreements?
Pulikovski | Is not present, certainly. But it is impossible to do it by force. The proprietor himself should come and tell that is ready to work on - new. And to give obligations that will not influence the state inspector, and together with it to work.
the Lift - frankenshtejn
RG | And with lifts - murderers and falling tower cranes in what a problem? What there the system reasons ?
Pulikovski | Their two. The majority of lifts, tower cranes and other elevating mechanisms have already developed the resource calculated for 25 years, and replacement demand. But lift replacement costs about one million roubles. And the maintaining organisations should find this money. Where? If in an apartment house, that, means, at tenants of this house. If in an office building, at the proprietor. Weekly inspector Rostehnadzora stop work of lifts in apartment houses. To use them - means to risk life.
the Second reason is connected by that is very frequent we we do not find owners of lifts. And time is not present the owner anybody for lifts does not answer. Today there were many buildings and the constructions which are in not clear property. At times the proprietor under documents also is, but all buildings has rented to tens various organisations, and itself has disappeared, and it cannot be found. The latest tragical case has occurred in Ivanov on April, 10th. In an apartment house which ground floors are rented by businessmen under shops, studio, hairdresser`s, the faulty goods lift without doors has literally broken off the woman who has gone on it upwards on a part. When we of the inspector have left into place, have sealed up the lift it was found out that it in management of Rostehnadzora is not registered, and the owner of the lift is unknown. I can tell to within one, how many lifts and cranes we supervise today. But it does not mean that it is so much cranes and lifts at us today operates in Russia. And anybody to you does not name exact figure. The same concerns also tower cranes.
RG | Why?
Pulikovski | With licensing cancellation on many kinds of activity, such especially dangerous objects as tower cranes, were are released from reception of obligatory permissions. Procedure became zajavitelnaja. And many proprietors simply do not find now necessary to register installation of such objects. So multiton large objects remain out of any state control. And we come to check them actually on signals or from inhabitants of area, or from legal bodies, whose interests are restrained by the concrete proprietor or when failure has already occurred. That is abnormal. After all formally Rostehnadzor should supervise behind technical processes and supervise proprietors, instead of search for them. For example, it was found out that one of the fallen cranes in St.-Petersburg, has not been considered in Rostehnadzore, that is it as though did not exist.
Therefore I would like to ask kchitatelej, businessmen, public organisations that addressed in Rostehnadzor and its territorial bodies with the information is more often. It will be easier to us to work. Especially public receptions work for us in all regions.
Building - the invisible being
We very often meet during checks of the building organisations, especially in Moscow and in St.-Petersburg, such cranes - the invisible beings maintained without the state supervision. And administrative sanctions we show not that there was a failure, and that business works without documents. Remember a case in the autumn, when in the Moscow hypermarket Ashan the roof has fallen off and five persons were lost? The contractor - Turkish firm which has constructed a building, has only a permission to carrying out of excavations. And who the customer of civil work - is not known, any affilirovannaja dim structure. And not Rostehnadzor should search for it, and law enforcement bodies. Or at least local authorities which authorised for earth tap. And we always say that in this case claims to Rostehnadzoru not obosnovanny. These are questions - to local authorities. Why resolve, and then do not check?
RG | And what on your memory was the heavy fine for technology infringement at object operation?
Pulikovski | 800 thousand roubles - that for the large enterprise not such a great sum. The smallest penalty - about thousand roubles which was paid by the director. But business not only in penalties. Here I would like to underline that in market economy all - taki the penal discipline, and economic stimulus should work not palochnaja. For example, if diligent owners constantly direct the financial assets on improvement of ecology, the equipment, treatment facilities they could be released, for example, from a payment for negative influence on environment.
RG | What greatest technogenic danger, on - to yours, threatens in the near future Russians?
Pulikovski | equipment Ageing, and in all branches. And thus everywhere its owners try to prolong operation terms that leads to failures, destruction of people. After all the private property is first of all profit reception, instead of safety of people. Where to find golden mean that the private trader got profit and observed all safety rules? And golden mean - in the state supervising body. And strengthening of its status very important. After all property change - from state in private - should mean strengthening of the state supervision. Unfortunately, such approach has not appeared yet. But we to it will come. It is a pity only that this understanding comes through destruction of people, through a grief, tears, through failures.
For now at us - one regular inspector Rostehnadzora on some dangerous objects. For example, all Moscow underground with thousand lifts is supervised by one regular inspector Rostehnadzora. It is clear that it cannot suit us.
Here a year the state building supervision, control over atmospheric air also is assigned to Rostehnadzor. Unfortunately, service it is not allocated for this purpose in the list of staff of any person, any rouble for payment. Accordingly, we have in addition started to load those inspectors who already work for us. And if there are powers, but they could not be executed, what sense from these powers?
RG | Konstantin Borisovich, and what powers at your inspectors at the state building supervision?
Pulikovski | Unfortunately, they come on building sites when walls there are already put up, there are buildings. Since January, 1st of this year action was entered by amendments to the Town-planning code, quite probably, lobbied by the large building companies. As a result - processes of the statement of examination of the predesign documentation and supervision of building of dangerous industrial objects and unique, technically difficult constructions are completely divided. And after all such buildings concern large trading, entertainment complexes, that is places of a mass congestion of people. Now - in designing Rosstroj should be engaged, supervision of building, reconstruction and repair to conduct Rostehnadzor, and for recycling of building garbage (in Moscow now actively take down pjatietazhki) in general no federal supervising body answers. Someone has designed a building, someone has chosen for it a platform, someone has hammered in the first peg, and then only call Rostehnadzor: Come and begin to supervise as we build . We start to make a complaint and say that supposedly build - that incorrectly. And to us in the answer: Here the confirmed project, we on it also build under the project . I think, such confusion and is favourable to the building companies. It is a pity, what from legislators nobody has simulated, and how will pass supervision process? We try to correct this paradox and have directed the offers to the government. Time such federal complex structure, as Rostehnadzor in the same building it should " is created; to conduct dangerous object from designing before recycling. Then both all objects, and all their proprietors will be are transparent and, means, are supervised.