Anatoly Gladilin: What for to migrants Russian
In the State Duma is introduced the bill of obligatory knowledge of Russian by labour migrants. As has explained one of its authors, for foreigners will organise special courses for which employers will pay. Whether it is possible to live in the country, without knowing language? Whether can “ bezjazykost “ to lead to the social conflict? Who should pay a linguistic educational program of foreign hired workers and employees? With these questions the correspondent has addressed to the Russian writer Anatoly Gladilin for a long time living in France. In this country, as it is known, the problem of mutual relations of the state and numerous migrants costs especially sharply.
| it seems to you, what a special language course, moreover and such for which employers should pay, can become an artificial barrier to use of foreign experts?
Anatoly Gladilin | Looking what. Foreign high-class experts who are necessary to any country, hardly begin to study language. I remember Soviet period: we then invited the largest foreign scientists in the field of the nuclear industry. Also did not ask, whether they know Russian. If the attention to the question by an edge supposedly is brought the crust about the termination of any courses is obligatory, means, class experts are not so necessary to the country. Imagine a situation: have invited any very dear professor, which big expert in area, say, electronics. And to it of years 60. Well it will not learn Russian. It is simple cannot. By experience of our Russian emigration I know that people after 50 language, behind the rare exception, cannot already learn. It is a trouble and our Russian which cannot learn Estonian in Estonia, and those compatriots who cannot cope Latvian in Latvia.
Other aspect. Passing of the law on courses for migrants, the country exposes a barrier to labour inflow. Why Russia is interested in it, thus that huge our spaces, we will tell in Siberia, are not mastered absolutely not? I do not understand these reasons.
RG | But after all and in France put these barriers...
Gladilin | it is valid, new president Nicolas Sarkozy wants this idea to make the law. But in France unlike Russia absolutely other situation. It was already overflowed by an immigration wave. Many run from poverty in Africa, knowing that here they will receive at once social security and other blessings. And if parents still thin - poorly work, children of it are not going to do. Last detail: have shown on the TV suburbs of Paris which are very dissatisfied with Nicolas Sarkozy elections. And certain semicriminal, forgive, the snout speaks in a television camera: “ We have allowed Frenchmen to choose, and they have chosen Sarkozy. Thereby they have declared to us war! But we will show to them! “ to send the trouble-maker home it is impossible, because, been born in the French territory, it has high-grade French citizenship. There was a following: Frenchmen, building a democratic society, have created in itself “ the fifth column “. Now - that have thought suddenly that have come not “ poor hungry Africans “ and conquerors with the religion, ideology and customs. And to put any barriers to this crowd simply vital.
RG | But how about what you speak, keeps within a political correctness channel from which the West rushes?
Gladilin | Ideologically the West cannot refuse the position of the help to developing countries, but lingvisticheski it is time for making for a long time.
Here if Russia is afraid to receive at itself something similar that now occurs in France, otherwise, if there is a real danger of threat of alien culture such law on courses for migrants is necessarily necessary. It will be though any filter that who wants “ in another`s monastery with the charter “. The person who knows language, will be better to understand this country. By the way, in idea of courses and tests as those anything bad I do not see. To take at least examination on the American citizenship which force to hand over all migrants. To work, it is necessary to understand not bad besides English language the state device. It is very essential barrier.
RG | And who should pay for a language educational program of migrants: employers or the state? Whether this law will work? After all not only that it is impossible to force to register our owners labour from - for a boundary, to them will impose also courses...
Gladilin | If the country is really interested in that people not simply came, but also worked, it is necessary to organise courses. Here a positive example of France of that time when it needed migrants. In Paris there are courses “ the Alliance frantsez “ where any visitor could learn French. And, if newcomers of migrants did not have means and work, the state paid for them. And here that businessmen paid? I in France did not face it...
RG | Judging by the law formulation, language to migrants are going to give in very modest volume - “ necessary for performance of their official duties “. It would be more important to organise regional geographic courses?
Gladilin | Such things now try to do in States. Holland which at first was absolutely demokraticheski has thought suddenly also is opened. I still remember, when in Amsterdam it was possible to leave a bicycle in the street and not to worry, with it something will make. Now, when in the country it is full of people with other mentality, it is perfect other atmosphere. If you come to capital by the car with foreign number, to you it will necessarily cripple. The country has very much changed. Therefore the government has been compelled to enter special courses where to people explained where they have arrived.
RG | you the person who professionally deals with language. Tell, it really force, capable to become the reason of the social conflict?
Gladilin | In itself, probably, is not present. Language can become the reason of the national conflict when conquerors come to the country and compel the population to study force other language. So could happen, do not win we the Great Patriotic War. If in your territory will locate zemljachestvo “ drones “ Speaking in another`s language, it, of course, in scales of the country will not result in the social conflict, but will irritate local population. I usually protect interests of our Russian emigrants: it was really difficult to them to begin life anew. But at the same time it is necessary to recognise that among them was a lot of such who was not going to work. They remained devstvenno are pure concerning English language. I remember, when I have for the first time arrived to Sergey Dovlatov, we walked across New York. During any moment it has stopped and has told: “ Roofing felt, from this step you any more will not hear any English word “. And further has gone: “ And! Petja! And! JAsha! Greetings! How are you doing? “
RG | And you went to emigration with the French language?
Gladilin | I have arrived to Paris in forty years. By then I have absolutely forgotten French which when - that learnt at school. It was necessary to begin with zero. Went on courses “ Alliance frantsez “. Very much, I will tell to you, difficult. Not only that at mature age a head already “ cooks “ not so it is good, as in teenage, has affected and “ professional “ aversion of other language. The matter is that at writers special brains: they push away strangers lexicon and syntax not to litter and to spoil analogies an own native language. But nevertheless I have learnt French, because it was necessary for work.
RG | the Phenomenon Brighton - the Scourge where all speak only on - russki, is our national feature?
Gladilin | Is a classical example. The same can be seen and in Los - Andzhelese. It was possible to keep such " Less; anklavnost “ in Germany though and there there are Russian settlements of this kind. Again I repeat: people who come to the country to work, instead of the fool to drag, language learn. And those who goes behind the unemployment benefit, manage two - three words in shop or a laundry. However Brighton - the Scourge is not only our invention. In same Los - Andzhelese is areas where all speak on - ispanski.
RG | Or on - kitajski?
Gladilin | Yes, though the Chinese community - a special theme. It “ a transcendental object “. Chineses hide the migrants, at them the underground factories. “ emerge “ only those who has accustomed and well mutters on local the hair dryer: English, French or Russian. And here for those who lives in these shops, it is completely not obligatory to know language. Because them simply do not let out in the country. At the Chinese migration special mentality and way.
RG | you often happen in Russia. Whether there is no at you a sensation, what here has occurred not only social, but also language stratification? The people living in elite and usual areas, speak different languages?
Gladilin | Coming to Russia, I communicate with the Moscow elite. In my understanding it, of course, not those who lives on Rublevke, and Russian intelligency which, thank God, still is in Moscow. And so she, fortunately, speaks in fine Russian. And the street practically does not know it. I any more do not speak about domination of a floor-mat, but I am am amazed with how Russian concedes to a pressure American slenga. And when on a slang say a body - and radio journalists, such sensation that you deal with people without higher education. Impression of illiteracy and Russian destruction. Those scraps of conversations which I hear in streets of Moscow, posters which I read, advertising which I see on the TV, - all it throws into confusion me, and sometimes and in horror. Because not all I understand. I understand, of course, that meant, but the form of construction of phrases the non-russian. I understand that sometimes there are no Russian words for a designation of some concepts. It is necessary to take American. I not against foreign words. To me it is not clear, for example, why a short word “ a penalty “ it was necessary to change on “ odinnadtsatimetrovyj “. It is ridiculous. But as distort syntax, breaking all system of Russian!
RG | the Protagonist of your best novel “ the Shade of the horseman “ moves in time and from the country to the country. Probably, should change and its language behaviour. How many languages he knows and whether you tried to stylise its speech?
Gladilin | He well speaks on - French because there was Sen Zhjustom during Great French revolution, on - shvedski - because was the king of Sweden, on - anglijski - was colonel Valenbergom and served at northerners in a staff of general Sherman. Also he sat in KGB torture chambers so, Russian knows. However the novel is written on - russki. Sometimes I insert any words and phrases in languages which my hero uses. But the writer first of all writes for those people who speak in his native language.