Pavel Krasheninnikov: With sense of justice in Russia business are not very well
About a role of lawyers in modern Russia, problems of judicial system there was a speech to interview of a member of presidium of Association of lawyers of Russia Michael Barshchevsky with the chairman of Committee of the State Duma under the civil, criminal, arbitration and remedial legislation, the chairman of Association of lawyers of Russia Pavel Krasheninnikov.
the Trade on the first roles
Michael Barshchevsky: on December, 3rd we in the third time have celebrated Day of the lawyer. What today a real role of lawyers in a society?
Pavel Krasheninnikov: Before lawyers there are different problems - from struggle against legal nihilism before clarification of the numbers. But if to speak about people who are the present lawyers not only under the diploma, a role essential. Probably, even the dominating. At us a large quantity of conflicts and unlike the beginning 1990 - h they basically dare in courts. And, of course, a role of the lawyers participating in a resolution of conflicts - inspectors, public prosecutors, lawyers, and especially judges, - it is considerable above, than was earlier.
Barshchevsky: And what role of the right and the law in society life?
Krasheninnikov: These questions are closely interconnected, because the right and the law - not abstract categories. There are people who introduce those or other norms or use them at the permission of various questions. Certainly, lately the law role has a little raised, but, unfortunately, sometimes phone call on - former remains much more effective means, than any rule of law.
Barshchevsky: Both of us feel sufficiently protected. But we understand that it is connected not by that at us in a society laws operate, and that we have posts and crusts.
Krasheninnikov: Completely with you it agree. Especially it is felt in regions. There with the automatic machine not gangsters, and militiamen at night can jump out, to start to swing a stick, to shout. For example, recently near Moscow GAI officers have absolutely unreasonably stopped Anatoly Kucherenu. What here security for ordinary citizens? The similar facts need to be fixed by means of video - or audio equipments because the heads, as a rule, cover the subordinates.
Barshchevsky: we Take a concrete situation. Sobjanin, ours with you the colleague and a member of presidium of Association comes to Moscow. I with it have worked 2,5 years and I can testify that it rather sensible and very business head, not the populist. It on Saturday leaves on territory, removes two chiefs of justices for the tents, close underground. And in a city the mass pulling down of tents begins. Someone too zealous has decided that campaign begins, and has worked on an advancing. Mass infringement of the law has begun. In 3 weeks the message comes that the mayoralty did not instruct on a pulling down. After all the majority of tents stood legally, and people had a rent right. And to it have told suddenly: “ Have gone “. How it is possible to count on any sense of justice of the population when the local authorities create lawlessness absolutely with impunity?
Krasheninnikov: after such cases it is possible not to count on it. Because if someone from an environment of the mayor has really shown the speed in the way which does not have to the law any relation, and thus remained unpunished, of course, it is blow on reputation of the power and discredit of principles of a lawful state. If victims really had lawful bases to be in those places, whence they were asked, it is necessary to address in court.
Justice with loading
Barshchevsky: But trust level to judicial system is lowest. Poor do not trust court because consider, at them there chances are not present, and rich because business can be solved on a call of their competitor hardly richer and hardly more covered administrative resource. And I did not hear, that though one of tenants of tents has addressed in court. Though to address in court concerning a pulling down chiefs of justices should. Whether it seems to you what to begin work it is necessary not at once everywhere and not from militia even, and from judicial system?
Krasheninnikov: According to our polls to judicial system trust only 32 - 33 percent of the population. But there is also other statistics testifying to increase of quantity of claims, submitted to arbitration courts and courts of law. Citizens have started to refuse doubtful services, so-called bratkov. So, all of us - taki potihonechku leave this bog.
Barshchevsky: Thus judges catastrophically do not suffice. Loading on judges both arbitration, and the general jurisdiction is enormous. And it influences quality of disposal of legal proceeding. Why not to increase quantity of judges? Really you in the Duma do not understand, what the judicial system is a corner stone of stability of the country?
Krasheninnikov: the Most terrible is a cheap justice. But besides money there should be a professionalism and, of course, a transparency. A transparency at appointment of judges to a post, a transparency of their incomes and expenses. And, certainly, a transparency of the decisions taken out by them which, in my opinion, certainly, should be published in the Internet. And if in system of arbitration courts of it thin - have poorly achieved, courts of law at the very beginning of a way.
Barshchevsky: Though at meetings at the president promised to publish by August, 1st 100 percent.
Krasheninnikov: I write legal books. Also I try to watch judiciary practice on housing, civil and family affairs. Sometimes under the accepted decisions it is possible to write feuilletons. They not only legally, but also leksicheski the illiterate. For example, easily can confuse a share to metres. Certainly, very much disciplines that at court there are two parties: the claimant and the respondent. And someone will be necessarily dissatisfied with the taken out decision and it will steadfastly study. And still there is a supervision and the cassation where can attentively get accustomed to vocational training passing the doubtful decision.
Barshchevsky: And what do you think of the initiative of the Ministry of Finance on deprivation of judges, vysluzhivshih more than 20 years, the extra charge at a rate of 50 percent from their lifelong maintenance in case of resignation.
Krasheninnikov: I Consider that the Association of lawyers of Russia should declare at the top of the voice inadmissibility such “ economy “. In - the first, it will lead to mass lay-offs of the most qualified and deserved representatives of the judicial case. In - the second, it contradicts the legislation. At last, such decision would be simply dishonest and unfair. We have already directed the corresponding resolution to the Ministry of Finance.
Barshchevsky: Now there is a fierce dispute which infringes on interests of Russians, about applicability in Russia of decisions of the European court under human rights. Valery Dmitrievich Zorkin has acted with article, and then and on a press - conferences with not indisputable, but legally given reason and very correct position that if decisions ESPCH contradict the Constitution they should not be applied in Russia. Thus check on constitutionality of decisions ESPCH, naturally, is included into a prerogative of the Constitutional court of Russia because other body is not present. It turns out, what not ESPCH can inspect decisions of the Constitutional court, and on the contrary, the Constitutional court - decisions ESPCH. Who all - taki glavnee today?
Krasheninnikov: it is wrong to bring an attention to the question, what court glavnee - at everyone the competence, everyone - the highest authority in the sphere. I read this article, and it is difficult to me even to present hypothetically that the decision of the European court has suddenly arrived in the Constitutional court. It is any absolutely fantastic design. The constitutional court operates within the limits of the federal constitutional law. At the European court a little bit other competence. It is clear that this body is not pleasant to much and, of course, they would like, that the questions which are in competence ESPCH, dared in the country. But it seems to me, it is quite good that there is an instance which can consider ours of cases impartially and even a little otstranenno. And if someone considers that in Russia not all has been considered properly, law infringements took place, it is possible to address in ESPCH. Normally and to oppose it these two instances does not follow. Both that, and another serve that in the country the law was observed and human rights were protected.
the Key question
Barshchevsky: Associations of lawyers already 5 years, today entirely lawyers in the power. And we have a certain responsibility before a trade and before our children who will not have those posts which are occupied with us. If we do not have time to make so that our country has started to live under laws what for we in general were engaged in it?
Krasheninnikov: If our children will not be at posts, it, can, and to the best. It is important, that they have taken place in any trade. But concerning security you are right. And the first that we should make, it, certainly, to build game rules. With it we - the Duma, the government and the president, like potihonechku would consult. And here with sense of justice at us business, of course, are not very well. And both on state, and at household level. When at neighbours noise and din, the majority prefers not to communicate. To people as - that is awkward where - that to call and complain. And after all this direct assistance to infringers of the law and order.