the Ombudsman on protection of the rights of businessmen of Boriss TITUS has explained to the correspondent " " to MARIA - to LOUISE TIRMASTE as the new institute will function, what problems before it were put by the president, has estimated, what prospects of the right liberals and why the state should go to the right.
Why Vladimir Putin has decided to enter right now institute of the representative?
Because the problem becomes critical. We, the enterprise organisations, were possible manage it to it. The president initiated work on program realisation " 100 steps forward in a business climate " are accepted " road maps " in each direction. But to improve a business climate it is impossible without the decision of the main problem corruption pressure upon business. Today property selection through use of the criminal legislation, threat of imprisonment norm, also representatives of power structures do it basically.
but after all it was also five, and seven years ago.
the Problem existed, but it was a bit another, for example, corporate raid has passed qualitative evolution. If earlier raiders were " private traders " businessmen used agents of national security for arrival on other businessmen, today employees of power structures, werewolves in epaulets, steels businessmen. Officials of power structures more often today already own business and at all do not hide it, selecting the property at businessmen. These are qualitative changes, evolution of our economic system. The raw model leads to that officials becomes more and more. Everyone wants to capitalise the place. The problem has blossomed to solve its any other methods, and business - the community has suggested to enter institute of the representative.
and to the previous president Dmitry Medvedev who spoke about business development much, did not offer?
No. The idea has blossomed only where - that in the end of 2011 when we have understood that without it not to manage.
that is you with this idea were converted to president Putin and he has agreed with it?
Yes, so, have offered and persuaded Vladimir Vladimirovicha that he has made the decision.
it was necessary to persuade him?
What you cling at once to words? We have proposed, it has accepted it, because the situation has blossomed.
" " werewolves " at us creative "
How the institute of the representative what will be its structure will function?
My purpose has occurred on June, 22nd. While staff is discussed. Our offers consist that it there should be an open institute at which businessmen will have a possibility not only to submit the reference or to receive legal consultation through the Internet, but also personally to come with the reference. That is there should be reception and staff of lawyers which would provide function of the ombudsman.
as to directions of work, the main things a little. It first of all work with references, in concrete cases as Englishmen speak, cases. To us there is a considerable quantity of references of businessmen, whose rights as they consider, are already broken, which are imprisoned or a pre-trial detention centre or under a subscription about nevyezde. There are simply egregious examples... Property selection through ugolovku became already normal. And so for this purpose there is a centre of public procedures " Business against corruption " which draws the legal conclusion in these cases. And if we see that is really right are broken, then the ombudsman will take these public decisions and to operate: to release the businessman, to close criminal cases by means of interaction with a management of Office of Public Prosecutor and other power structures. The second part legislative work: we should make so that the legislation really protected the rights of the businessman. First two packages on a humanisation of the criminal legislation which were signed by president Medvedev, have given positive changes. For example, businessmen began to put at a consequence stage, but " less; werewolves " at us creative, find roundabout maneuvers. The basic roundabout maneuver it is article 159 " Swindle ". Now again put, but drawing to each case swindle.
how much the person it is necessary for you?
While we define strategy and tactics of the ombudsman, proceeding from it the offer under the list of staff will be formed. We in more good situation because we lean against public institutes which are already created. They operate independently, but thus and work as very important addition in work of the ombudsman. The anticorruption centre " Business Russia " the incorporated commission on ethics RSPP, the arbitration court at TPP this all institutes which are assistants to the ombudsman, and in many respects it is possible to lean against them. And at the expense of it it is possible to save the state money for maintenance of work of the ombudsman.
and to whom you will submit?
Though I the official and my post am brought in the register of state posts, all the same I on the business party, and he will judge my work. Submission at me only to the president is formal and to report I should only to it. Though, of course, I will co-operate with Presidential Administration. Expert management will carry out the general kuratorstvo. We will operatively lean against its activity and the assistant to the president Elvira Nabiullina. We should work and with Office of Public Prosecutor where the is entered " the ombudsman " for business zamgenprokurora. We discuss creation with them structures, something of emergency response centre type into which representatives and other departments that it reacted to concrete references would enter. And the Office of Public Prosecutor on the line would take at once measures: would stop wrongful decisions of officials.
before you the president put specific targets?
Ourselves always say that in economy are important KPI (target indicators), but in this business just KPI it is very difficult to put. The public opinion, opinion of businessmen first of all will be an estimation of my activity, a leah really I could help to improve something a business climate or have stayed trousers and have made nothing.
there are affairs in which you essentially will not be engaged?
On experience of the centre we refuse more, than we accept to consideration of references. Are converted very often on a broader scale under conflicts, to business not connected or connected but where something is simple with each other have not divided, more often on real estate and where there are signs no corruption, corporate raid. The representative will not only protect. It will and attack officials who prevent to do the part to business. Now we pull out businessmen from prisons and are already happy that at last - that they have found freedom, but we should bring matters to the end: to achieve, that " werewolves " for such affairs bore personal responsibility. There is such article 169 of the criminal code of Russian Federation, " Discouraging of lawful enterprise activity ". There not so big terms, till three years, basically penalties, but this criminal offence, and if the official is denounced under this article, it cannot work on the state any more.
there were punishment precedents under this article?
and how you will attack?
Criminal cases to get under this article. We will be converted into Office of Public Prosecutor, SKP, I will have a right to be converted into courts. I can bring an action against the official under article 169. Businessmen are afraid to do often it on its own behalf. They are already happy, if prosecution has stopped, and do not want the further escalation of the conflict. But the environment demands, that all understood that illegal arrival on business this crime and punishment for a crime will come necessarily.
As far as I know, into you most when - that have driven...
There was a business, I have really got to number " every sixth " the businessman who had to face corporate raid. It was in the beginning 2000 - h. I was the co-owner of corporation " Nitrogen " at our partner " Mezhregiongaz " the manager was replaced. There was somebody Garnovsky. And so he has decided to take away our package in the personal advantage and has arranged to us cheerful life with use adminresursa and power structures. It was necessary to resemble in Office of Public Prosecutor as on work, and in courts, and even abroad to sit out month. But all has ended with that in a year it has been dismissed. However, has backdating translated the actions belonging " to Mezhregiongaz " on itself, for what, as far as I know, is searched and disappears abroad till now.
you will be engaged in the foreign companies?
No gradation will exist. The president has told at the Petersburg forum that it is necessary to be engaged both Russian, and foreign investors. Moreover, we still want to be engaged Russian abroad. Already there is one reference. In some countries the relation to the Russian investors not always correct, and there it is necessary to protect their rights too.
" Kudrin has counted on the rests of Union of Right Forces "
Why you have decided to refuse political activity? It turns out, what by means of party tools you did not manage to achieve your purposes?
I not so the professional politician. It is more necessarily. I the businessman, and for business development conditions are necessary. All over the world business uses also political tools. So happens that in Russia the right idea in 1990 - h has been discredited years mladodemokratami, right parties did not become also we remained without political tools. Usually business itself does not go to a policy, professionals are engaged in it, but for the lack of these it was necessary to get into this subject. Have participated in creation " the Just cause " unsuccessfully: our Right-wing liberal program has been blocked by a wing of the former Union of Right Forces which actually any not right, but absolutely left liberals, and for them it is much more important mitingovost, lozungovost and shocking, than common sense.
the second input with Prokhorov, but he has started to create party not right, not left, and for all. Just met certainly, " we will look " but, apparently, again " not so "... So for myself I have decided that for today to us it is more important than possibility which are given by the tool of the ombudsman. While I will not be engaged in a policy, probably. But business as a whole will generate the order for the Right-wing liberal party, and it will be created in the near future. But it will be not levoliberalnaja nostalgia party on false 1990 - m. By the way, I congratulate Kudrin that in the political project it has counted on the rests of Union of Right Forces (Gozman and the company): it is possible to be assured that anything good from this it will not turn out.
the left trend in the politician now dominates, it as - that can be broken? Even if Michael Prochorus offers the right ideas to advance in left odezhke.
It because at us the most part of electorate the left. The inheritance 1990 - h and raw model of economy which is realised today, have led to that at all of us is less and less private traders and more and more the state. Many people do not see the future in own business, and see it that they should have a constant, the growing salary from the state, therefore and grows the left electorate. For this reason so it is fashionable among right to wrap all in left odezhku. And " Apple " which, as a matter of fact, is far not left, both Union of Right Forces in due time, and Prokhorov all try to search for the electorate on the left flank. We with it do not agree. In due course, when economic reforms will be realised, the middle class which will vote more and more for the Right-wing liberal idea will grow. Presence of the Right-wing liberal party at parliament would shift a policy vector, including party in power, to the right. To close " the Right turn " we do not gather: it is the expert centre, not party, its problem for today as much as possible professionally and objectively, abstracting from populism, to formulate the Right-wing liberal position that is today and as should be at us in the country in the future. Well and then about party we will look.
you suppose the returning in a policy?
If through two - three years I realise those problems which stand before me on new fast, and I will leave from public service I do not exclude that when - nibud I will return to a policy.
" an United Russia " many under its decisions consider as right party...
I not so agree. It is considered that, as the economic policy was formulated by liberal Kudrin, but can prove to you that it is not Right-wing liberal.
it was not in the party in power.
Putin`s Two presidential terms both one premersky 12 years it was the main ideologist and the manager of national economy, as far as I understand, and today actively enough participates in process. It is impossible to name its liberal in any way. Its policy consists in rigid financial and monetary strategy and targetirovanii macroeconomic stability. At a certain stage of clearing of blockages 1990 - h it was very effective and favourable to the country. But it has become successful already in 2005 - 2006. The anti-recessionary program has been finished. Each businessman knows that another should follow any anti-recessionary program the development program. Unfortunately, he has not understood it, has not released reins, has not given freedom of development to business which already would create today new, modern, diversifitsirovannuju economy. Only the liberal, private, competitive economy which Kudrin has practically strangled, instead of raw model to which all has definitively come, can make the rich, steady, modern country of Russia.
over Kudrin still the president and the prime minister were.
Yes, it came to us in " Business Russia " also spoke: " And that I can, I only the minister ". Could. The president, the prime minister it always politicians. And the economist Kudrin, on it the problem of a formulation of economic strategy lay.
see positive changes with its leaving?
the Model all the same remains old. Ideas which have been put by Kudrin, the command which worked together with it while are dominating in economic policy. We on - former see the main task the rigid financial, budgetary policy. Whereas in the world there are other processes. The budgetary discipline as to the main task which dominates today in Europe, merkelevskoj to the doctrine, the politician of the European Central Bank which is in many respects similar on kudrinskuju, is confronted with another. For example, a policy of the USA who considers that during crisis first of all it is necessary to support business, to reduce taxes, stimulirovat demand, redeeming, for example, mortgaging receipts. Kudrin has offered absolutely other variant rigid economy and rescue of the large companies and banks. Yes, to us has carried that we had reserves: the social sphere practically has not suffered. But we cut to ourselves the future: on crisis we have lost a considerable quantity of manufacturing enterprises, nobody helped them.
you have told that the command, as a matter of fact, remained former. That is the new structure of the government does not satisfy you?
I want to tell that the doctrine while remains former. In the new government it is a lot of people who are more inclined to our ideas. We consider as the adherents both Arcady Dvorkovicha, and Andrey Belousova, and, of course, Elvira Nabiullina.
it not in the government.
In Presidential Administration.
As you estimate a situation actually with two governments both #150; official and shadow? Speech about the former members of the government who now work as assistants to the president and heads of managements of the president.
In economic sphere at us always so was. Dvorkovich was the assistant to the president at Medvedev. There was expert management AP which always was engaged in economy. Just as there was a ministry led by Nabiullina. That is by and large anything in management structure economic development has not occurred.
" I should be ravnoudalen "
One of your last initiatives economic amnesty. It is an attainable aim? You have informed it to the president?
It was the initiative " Business Russia " and " the Right turn ". As to the representative, me it is necessary to look in more details at this situation together with other public organisations. Not all support it, because an exit on freedom of those who illegally contains, whose rights are broken, will occur simultaneously to clearing of those who stole from the budget, those who was engaged in swindle. There should be a common opinion of enterprise community.
you have already studied business of Michael Khodorkovsky?
And in it will be engaged?
If Khodorkovsky is converted to us into the centre of public procedures, we will be.
and without its reference?
the Presidential Council under human rights has drawn the conclusion...
At all my respect for it we consider cases not with political, and from the economic point of view. We have a procedure, we should pass through legal and public audit.
they involved lawyers and lawyers.
I did not participate in this procedure, I can not precisely tell. The main thing it is social council which looks at business from the enterprise party. The reference of the businessman the formal moment, we should have business materials, we should know, with whom to communicate, lawyers, representatives and etc.
And at you the personal opinion is on its business?
Now I the official the ombudsman. Only after the public conclusion to its smog to voice.
between the four of the business organisations RSPP, " Business Russia " " the Support of Russia " And TPP always there was a competition. A leah is it now?
Though each organisation protects the layer of business, the competition all the same is. It is connected by that we as any public organisation, we work not for the state bill we live at the expense of payments of our members. And consequently struggle for these payments, for members, this competitive struggle exists. In it anything bad is not present. We should prove that we the most effective, we the cleverest, the most active.
what do you mean by efficiency? Lobbying of interests?
Yes. We work everyone on the home field. Sometimes our sights do not coincide. For example, with RSPP under the taxation of oil sector at us a disagreement. We consider that it is necessary to increase the taxation raw, first of all gas, sectors. In comparison with other countries it at us in free conditions. And they say that they the poorest and the most unfortunate. Thus " Gazprom " fixes record profit: it has exceeded 1,5 trln rbl. " Business Russia " decrease in taxes, first of all is the now most important than the former unified social tax, and for them it not the most important problem. At the big companies in raw sector such profits that they can both to pay taxes, and salaries huge to employees whom we cannot pay. From the big salaries at us unified social tax not 30 %, and 10 %, and prior to the beginning of this year on a broader scale paid nothing. A situation in which they can pay huge salaries, and thus pay rather less taxes, says that the system supports the large companies. By the way, and " to the Support of Russia " decrease in taxes because they represent interests of small-scale business, at them the system of the taxation, very preferential is not necessary.
The competition of the enterprise organisations will not disturb to your work on fast of the ombudsman?
I should be ravnoudalen, or, better to say, ravnopriblizhen to all organisations.
what are you going to do with negative image of businessmen? The majority of Russians consider that to businessmen thirst of a profit, propensity to zhulnichestvam first of all are inherent, in frauds.
Today there is a considerable quantity of the companies which are engaged in philanthropy. While the philanthropy market in Russia not so is huge, as in the USA where it we will compare to the country budget. We in " Business Russia " tried to find these people that was very difficult because they not so want to advertise the peaceable things. Nevertheless we awarded their award " Peaceable things ". But the main thing it is necessary to change public opinion that profit, a profit It is bad, dominating in consciousness of our left society. When 60 % of the population there are more gets wages from the budget, business cannot call it any positive emotions. Nevertheless I can tell that a considerable quantity of people 25 - 30 % are ready to be engaged in business. This group can become the main locomotive of movement of the country to the right. Here they also should head a campaign for new image of the Russian business.
you were the successful businessman, but the new post means that you cannot be engaged in business more.
chemical and other tasteless literally words of actives I gradually left all and for today remained only with tasty both #150; wine and a chicken. If " Business Russia " I leave though and with grief, but all - taki with feeling of the executed debt in business me have caught on soar. We only on first third of realisation of the project of what at me yet was not, absolutely new and grasping.